TIDE and Hashgacha Pratis

The idea that everything that happens is directly controlled by Hashem has a long tradition in Judaism (see for example the Rosh here: https://www.sefaria.org/Orchot_Chaim_L’HaRosh.1.25). I’ve definitely seen some in this community attack hashgacha pratis stories and trying to see everything that happens as message from Hashem on your life. I’m wondering how people see the connection between this and TIDE.

This is more of an answer from a TIDE person than TIDE, but the reason I dislike many such stories (besides their accuracy or lack theteof, and the implications/lessons claimed to be learned) is the fact that everything is behashgocho, no less the things we take for granted/do not see the “Oh, wow!!” moment.

In a parallel vein, when Rav Schwab had flown on a jet airplane for the first time, he reported to Rav Breuer tje incredible נפלאות הבורא he had experienced, being above the clouds, etc. Rav Breuer replied that he had precisely the same ferling when he saw a little flower growing out of a crack in the sidewalk….

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That’s beautiful. I definitely do think that we need to experience the wonder of Hashem in all of our life.

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The problem with many of the popular hashgacha pratis stories that are widely peddled is that they are simply untrue. Instead of building emunah it harms it in the long run. There is no industry wide standard for vetting the veracity of stories. Some publishers have no qualms at all hawking “true life” stories that they are well aware are of highly dubious nature. The same problems plague the darshanim circuit as well. Basic fact checking is lacking and as such stories are highly unreliable.

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Additionally the exact interplay between hashgacha pratis and hashgacha klalis is subject to much machlokes. R’ Chaim Gross’s Darkhei Hashgacha is a valuable resource for a proper treatment of the matter

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My father לאי”ט once fact checked a story involving the Dutch royal family that had been printed in one of said books. It could not be corroborated from official records.

These stories are often either untrue or have got “better” with the retelling

But they also beg the question, what about the people who were less lucky, why is the alleged hashgocho protis so selective? Does this mean the less fortunate ones were less meritorious, lacking midos, less good yuchsin?

I think this raises a wider question of theodicy

RSRH was before the publication of the Brothers Karamazov, I would love to know if the challenge of Ivan Karamazov was discussed by subsequent TIDE rabbonim and thinkers

I am not sure why השגחה פרטית must always be taken as cases of צדיק וטוב לו, just like in the parallel, and decidedly false, idea that בטחון means everything will work out as one wishes. Even leaving aside the issues of levels of השגחה פרטית וכללית, why mustעיני ה’ משוטטות בארץ imply an outcome for which we in our limited petspective would wish?

Honestly I think it’s the influence of the surrounding Christian culture. I’m a psychologist and I have a few religious Christian clients and they tend to tell stories like this. (As an aside I’m pretty sure Christianity is also the source the of the common expression “God only gives you what you can handle.” They say stuff like that all the time, and I’ve heard frum people say it too. I was shocked the first time I heard it because I suddenly realized we were probably just copying them. I’ve never seen any actual mekoros for that concept)

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There are famous stories from the gemara of R Akiva and Nachum Ish Gamzu that are (superficially) the opposite. Bringing it back to TIDE, R Schwab’s commentary on Iyov is probably one of the best treatments of theodicy that I’ve ever seen (and definitely is in line with universal hashgacha pratis). One just needs to be understanding of the notion of yissurin d’ahavah.

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The idea that “God only gives you what you can handle” has become axiomatic in Judaism. Reb Tzadok contradicts it explicitly in Tzidkas HaTzaddik 43. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I’ll need to check more carefully, but I do think that the Ramchal (in Derekh Hashem and Daas Tevunos) would agree with the statement that “God only gives you what you need”. Whether that’s what you can handle is a separate story. For the case from Tzidkas HaTzaddik, I think that the traditional mussar approach to being overwhelmed by the yezer hara is to treat is as a ones like getting into a crash when drunk driving is an ones. Yes, due to alchohol the driver wasn’t able to control the car and thus isn’t responsible for the crash, but he is responsible for being drunk.

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I don’t think you looked at the ThT inside. He is talking about Hashem making you sin, not the yetzer ho’ra.

I was commenting on this: “וגם בהסתת היצר בתוקף עצום שא"א לנצחו שייך אונס”. That was how I read the whole section. Hashem will put you into circumstances where you will be overwhelmed by your yetzer hara and sin. What part of the text were you reading to have Hashem directly overriding bechira and making a person sin?

[ואם ה’ יתברך הסיב את לבו הרי אין חטא זה חטא כלל רק שרצון ה’ יתברך היה כך]

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According to Understanding & Dealing with Nisyonot — Part 3 - Pain is a Reality, Suffering is a Choice - OU Torah, the notion that Hashem doesn’t give you a nisyaon you can’t handle is:

ספר אמונות ודעות - מאמר חמישי - אות ג
ולא הועיד לעשות כגון זה במי שלא יסבלם כיון שאין תועלת בכך

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Based on midrashim in bereshis rabbah.

Fair point, I guess because one often hears stories of hashgacha pratit in this context

And these stories are irksome

As for the idea that Hashem doesn’t give one nisyonot that one can’t stand, it is sadly not backed by empirical evidence

Empirical evidence of us definitely non-infallible mortals down here? Unclear what you mean.

If this is what the Rosh meant, one would have to ask why the last Lubavitcher Rebbe said that universal hashgachah peratis was a chiddush of the Baal Shem Tov.