Just as a thought experiment- if we could have an ideal living breathing kehilla that manifests TiDE in all its aspects- what does that look like? Could we characterize the institutions, economy, finance, relationships, operations and so on that such a community would have in our day and age?
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@MeirM The two of you should discuss and elaborate!
Would such a community be segregated from the rest of the Orthodox world?
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I donât know if that is a necessary condition- the point of the topic is to have all of us interact together to reflect on/discuss things like what you ask. I would like to hope that any community in formation would decide this as a process managed by its members. What kind of segregation are you referring to?
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I donât feel qualified to weigh in on this. For myself, I am just interested in a community that combines serious observance of halacha while
- Promoting Jewish Humanism/Universalism
- Promoting meaningful engagement with the world at large
- Employing an educational system designed for the benefit of the average Joe. This means a yeshiva curriculum that promotes heavy Tanakh, Mishna, and Halacha study at younger ages (as promoted by Chazal) while introducing Talmud (not for the entire day) later and Machshava. This would also involve top-tier secular education (at a minimum, literacy in English/Hebrew and science) while promoting transitioning into careers best suited for the given individual as the ideal. It would also involve enhancing understanding Torah through secular knowledge (Having a Veterinarian teach Chulin, for example).
This community shouldnât see itself different from the Orthodox world at large but would inevitably be perceived that way by many. I see this echoed in Andalusia, Renaissance Italy, and more Modern German Jewry.
Before I wrote this reply- I took a moment to read what you wrote under âThe Imperative of a Physical TiDE Community and a Call to Action. Iâm sorry I didnât look at this first before I put this topic up. I think we may essentially agree about the need for a community- with some reasons and ideas that may be similar and also different.
My background includes work doing cheese-focused hashgacha, helping print providers get their color management right to assure correctly colored print output, and community development work in primarily African-American areas. I have also been an embedded systems developer designing and implementing dedicated computer systems in industrial monitoring and control.
When I was doing the community development work, I was at the same time working on growing in Yiddishkeit to become Orthodox. A friend lent me a copy of the Horeb, and another friend introduced me to the baraisa of Reb Chiyya about how he would prevent Torah from being forgotten in Israel through its appearance in the Alter of Novhardokâs Mâzakeh HaRabim from Madregas HaAdam. As someone who has a community development background, I had a reflection on this baraisa that was based on some principles in the chochma of community development- which is that the baraisa of Reb Chiyya is essentially a model of sustainable community and economic development at the same time that it is what traditionalists would say it is about, to wit- if you carefully look at the baraisa, here is my perush based on community and economic development chochma- the baraisa begins with Reb Chiyya building a sustainable economic structure through his decision to start with flax to make the nets. Unless you are corrupting the briya like Monsanto does with making it illegal to use seeds derived from plants grown from seeds for food production- the fact that plants make seeds and seeds from those plants creates sustainability as the ratzon HaShem, You can also analogize the plants and seeds to show how money can be used like seeds to grow money- which is the concept of endowment finance of nonprofit activity. Reb Chiyya then takes the flax to manufacture nets, which are then used to trap deer, whose meat is used to feed orphans and whose skins become the basis of parchment for the creation of the chumash and the mishnayos, each one of which is then given to eleven children who are told to teach each other. Reb Chiyya acts as their rebbe- yet the goal is for the children to take the mesora as he provides it, and then pass it on to others in order to sustain the learning in Klal Yisroel.
This baraisa can teach us sustainability of community, economy, and ruchnious through recognizing that it begins with agriculture(which is inherently regenerative of itself), proceeds to manufacturing of food and publishing of books, and unlike most conventional nonprofit community-based programs- does not treat program participants as âserved clientsâ- but demands that as they are served to meet their needs, they in turn are obligated to serve others to meet their needs.
The baraisa of Reb Chiyya is a model of community and economic sustainability par excellence- with the majesty of Torah and chochma in synchrony. I believe this is the way to create a TiDE community that will be sustainable with proper values.
I think I have gotten what you mean by segregation- you object to a kehilla founded on the principles of TiDE, or any other principle. You find it preferable to have diverse organizations and institutions as the focus of community activity in a defined geography, with no single point of authority or accountability in a âkehillaâ entity. Is this correct?
Great curriculum.
In my humble opinion, the current Yeshiva system doesnât provide enough context to what is being learned. I would add that any form of education should also promote and heavily lean on Jewish History (and history in general).
As an example, if students were educated on what the Tannaim/Amoraim were dealing with at their time (be it politically, socially, geographically, etc.), they would come to appreciate TSBP a lot more, as it creates a more meaningful Limud interaction. When you provide context, it fosters a more robust understanding on how Halacha and our Mesorah was formed over the years.
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Not sure who this is replying to, but whether or not one thinks a formally-formed TIDE kehilla is a desiderata, such a kehilla would by definition, assuming it was being remotely true to its Hirschian roots, certainly not employ (abuse, to be harsher) the idea of Austritt against other ׊×××¨× ×Ş××¨× ××׌××ת.
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The reply was to mswhojda.
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Rav Hirsch was very skeptical of attempting to âcontextualizeâ Chazal.
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This really bears a full discussion, in re Wissenschaft, and depends what was meant by contextualizing Chazal.
That being said, there is every evidence that RSRH was fully on-board with the wish to understand the temporal and geographical realia. He cites Yehosef Schwartz as to the geography of EY, and the examples can be multiplied. He was far from an obscurantist.
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@bteifeld and @MeirM have often challenged me to at least envision living TIDE institutions. OK, fine. So letâs do it. I imagine that we have to start with high schools for girls and boys. But perhaps I am wrong and we should start with elementary schools, or with yeshivos-seminaries. I think a full community would be much harder to even imagine. But I would like to start the conversation and see what we brainstorm. It may never happen, but at least we should not have to come to Shomayim after 120 and say we never discussed it!
How about we start with a menu of organization categories, and fill in the specifics in our perception of priority? Here are mine, but please know- I am not married to this- just expressing my thoughts.
Administration: mara dâasra office, beis din, advancement/development/fundraising, research and evaluation(to understand if what we are doing is really working or not)
Education: K-16 combined elementary, secondary, and undergraduate embodying torah im derech eretz also inclusive of arts, entrepreneurship, trades; staged development possible beginning with simultaneous elementary/day school and secondary/yeshiva to begin; project management chochma at the center of academic policy to help develop planning, self-management, and collaborative work skills
Community Services: kashrus, mikvaos, beis hakevoras, gemach registration/management, wellness/health care(hospital, recreation/physical training, preventative care), farming/food manufacturing and coop purchasing
We can just say, see what KAJ should have and could have been (and, to certain extents was for a time) and try to start from scratchâŚ
Did/does KAJ have any documents available that would help us know detail about this?
The more detailed and finance focused, the better.
I think @RA_Alpert might be the only one here who would have any insight into that question.
I just looked at the KAJ website âservicesâ tab. That seems to be the limit of it. Should we limit ourselves to that alone?
https://www.kajinc.org/services
You need to put the mouse over this tab, rather than click it to see all the services.
Most of the Kehillaâs documentation, financial and otherwise, is not available to the public.
Moreover, the website is hardly exhaustive. It is built only to serve the average member or friend of shul. Kashruth and other business accounts are handled separately.
I would hardly suggdst kajinc.org as the way to get a behind the scenesâor, for that matter, any scenesâ understanding of the Kehilla.
It was a beginning. Does KAJ file a 990 tax return?